Non-PC Question

Ckim · Experienced user Joined: 15 Aug 2008 Posts: 57

This is a very non-PC question, but do many people drink to deal with a loved one's cancer?

I just e realized that I almost finished a bottle of wine tonight posting about my dad's cancer to a friend.

I help put my dad to bed most nights giving him a hug and a snuggle and he is wrapped in his blankets.

It keeps me awake most nights knowing that he is slowly slipping away from me.

My only other vice is look at real estate ads. There is something about a nice shiny home and speaks hope to me--another place, another time.

But, in the meantime, I have my father, who can barely talk, who cannot move his own feet to travel down the stair chair, and be safe on the power chair.

The man who raise and protected and worried about me, is now so exhausted after just getting out of his chair that his heart races in order to keep his oxygen levels steady.

I have had a whole bottle of Beringer's tonight. I have to get up tomorrow to meet the carpenter who is going to open up the bathroom door from 21" to at least 30" so my dad can go to the bathroom with some dignity.

I am losing him by degrees and so sometimes I indulge myself in some late night drinking.

My husband's friend died last week, age 52, totally unexpected, colors the week its own sad blue.

I want my dad to rally. I want he chemo to work. I am willing to get pom poms and cheer it on if only it would destroy the cancer that is interfering with his breathing.

I would rather at this point that he be hit by at truck just for the irony of it and to steal from the cancer it's last vestige of victory!

He had the throat cancer for 3 years before diagnosis, so count him as a 7.5 year survivor of throat cancer. 1.5 years lung cancer with mets to the brain and a brief of uneasy 4 months of NED.

It's all over his lungs.

Some distant day in the future, I envision someone with this cancer, getting a single shot, that marks it and the person's immune system destroys it, no side effects, no loss of dignity, etc.

But, it's not my reality. He can't eat, he can sleep somewhat. My mom is the martyr taking care and keeping vigil until I can arrange more homecare.

And still he suffers. Do you know the cough of one who has lung cancer? Do you know the depth of it? The tissues for which there is no healing?

How will he die?

He is on chemo now and cannot do the simplest of things for himself.

How will he die?

Fighting for every minute or peacefully surrenduring his spirit to that which is next or nothing at all?

Will I hold his hand and tell him it's OK as his O2 level drops to nothing? Will I pretend that everything is peaceful when everything that matters to me is slipping away?

The psalm says, "Yea, though I walk through valley of the shadow of death...."
I think that passage is foe the living and not the dying. We all walk through that valley, but only one of us stays there in that valley.

Thy rod and and they staff comfort me not at this moment. For my father is not dying...yet. But, that will happen. I have seen it too often. And so I know what ahead. Will his rod and staff comfort me then? Will my soul find refreshment?

My soul thirsting, parched without water, infused with cowardice.

One strives all their life for a good life, a productive life.

Can one work towards a good death, a peaceful death, or is that just another lie of religion.

Sorry, experiencing something of that "dark night of the soul, " and a too tasty bottle of wine that gives me the courage to peek into the future and wonder if I have what it takes to handle it.

I almost died coming into this world. My dad sweated whether I would live or die., I lived. Now, how can I be there for him to make sure that he has the most control, the most dignity, the humaness of his spirit as he faces his direst hour?

pbj11 · Site Admin Joined: 12 May 2007 Posts: 1406

Ckim,

Oh how your post tears at my soul. I answered your poll truthfully. I did not drink while my husband was ill, but darn it if I haven't found some solace at the bottom of a good martini or wine since he's been gone. I cannot sleep, so I try to relax myself late at night with a nip or two. I don't go hog-wild, but just need the relaxation that a drink provides to see me into the dark of night when the demons come out and wreak havoc with my emotions.

I also did a lot of "nothing" type stuff to fill my days while I kept close to my husband. I would lay awake at night watching his struggle to breathe. He also had sleeping problems and I knew he would wake up in the middle of the night and I'd need to get something to help him either get back to sleep or ice packs for the fevers he'd spike or fix the bed from the terrible night-sweats.

You mention the 23rd Psalm. Ironic that one of my best friend's also passed from lung cancer and that was her favorite Psalm. I made sure the Pastor had a copy of it at the hospital -- she loved the old version. He used it as the sermon and the part that you need to hold onto is "Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me." FOR THOU ART WITH ME -- that's what it's all about. God didn't promise us a rose garden, but he tells us he is always with us -- even in the darkest hours. This is the comfort we must rely on to see us through the tough times.

I'm rambling, but I think you get the point that I very much understand. I lost my Mom after a 2 1/2 year battle with cancer --- it is so hard to watch those you love slowly slipping away and becoming prisoners of their own bodies. Somehow we muddle through. Sometimes "muddling" is as good as it gets.

Have hope. Always have hope. I never gave up on the chance of a miracle. Hard thing to balance though -- hope and reality.

Many hugs to you and may God bless your family.

PBJ
_________________
Husband diagnosed with NSCLC Stage IV. (Non-Small Cell Lung Cancer) Fought & lived 2 1/2 years with multiple lines of treatment.

Post describing our battle: http://cancerforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=7026&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

maryaz · Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 11:53 pm Post subject: Re: Non-PC Question

Sometimes it is hard to find the right words to say to people. Maybe just knowing that others do care about your losses will help. My heart goes out to both of you. You expressed yourselves quite well.

I did cast my Vote also to No on the drinking. Time will ease the pain.
_________________
Mary

Husband is 67 year old Male
NSCLC - Squamous Cell Carcinoma
Chemo and Radiation Treatments together
Allergic reactions to Taxol and Taxotere.
The Story: http://www.cancerforums.net/about9079.html

Ckim · Experienced user Joined: 15 Aug 2008 Posts: 57

Thank-you all for your replies.

I really kind of went on a bender last night. I was up all night and finally gave into sleep at around 6 am. And then was awakened at 10 am so I could go over and supervise the carpenter who is making the bathroom door wider so my dad can get the power chair through it.

It was 21 inches! Not only that, but as the demo went on, it was obvious that it was originally supposed to be bigger but they made it smaller.

It hasn't been a big job--the door is on order.

I just thought that being able to access the bathroom from the power chair would give my dad more dignity and control over those things. He still needs help, but now he doesn't have to exhaust himself to get in there.

I don't want people to think I drink on a regular basis. I am on an antidepressant that I am trying to go off of gently and it left me feeling strange and dizzy--I figured a nice glass of wine would take that feeling away. But, that Berenger's is very tasty.

My father was in the doc office this morning receiving chemo--so they are continuing it. He was severely anemic because he does not eat so they are going to have him drink Ensure--maybe that will help with the energy.

But, you are right, I need to have hope. For some reason, I think if I am practical and anticipate his death that somehow I will get to deal with it on my own terms and it won't hurt me as much.

But, really, that's silly. It's going to be horrible no matter what, so pre-emptively preparing myself is not going to be as useful as having hope and immersing myself in that. As long as there is life and spirit there is hope.

And I think I will lay off the wine. It's a way too slippery slope. Embarassed

zinger · Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:40 am Post subject: Re: Non-PC Question

Hi Ckim,

I have also cast a "no" vote on the drinking question. I didn't indulge in anything like that while taking care of my parents. I did however find that I was very moody and withdrawn from my own family and took a lot of my frustrations out on them. I am blessed with a wonderful husband and sons who understood and gave me my "space". In a way I think it's kind of the same. We all have some kind of coping mechanism to help us stay sane in an otherwise crazy existence. Sometimes it just manifests in different ways. An occasional glass or of wine is not a bad thing. I would guess that a bottle or two could be a problem. Smile

I would be under the table and everyone would be my best friend!

I wish you peace my friend. I wish you a peaceful mind to help you sleep at night and help you cope with your Dad's illness. It's a crummy hand to be dealt when you don't know how to play the game. Stay strong! You will be surprised at how well you do!

You and your Dad are in my prayers,

Cathy
_________________
Dad ~ lung cancer diagnosed Dec 18, 2003, passed Mar 3, 2004.
Mom ~ lung cancer diagnosed May 27, 2008, passed June 1, 2008
They're waltzing once again...

pbj11 · Site Admin Joined: 12 May 2007 Posts: 1406

Zinger said: I would be under the table and everyone would be my best friend!

LOL --- Laughing

Having a family to take care of goes a long way when you are coping with the loss or impending loss of a parent. You HAVE to keep your act together.

I have no "act" anymore, so if everyone is my best friend from under a table on occasion, I'm okay with that! I only have one adult son living with me, basically in separate areas of the house, so there's nobody I'm responsible for but my cat. LOL

I'd like to point out that I'm not some middle-aged drunk -- not in the least. Just a couple nights a week a good martini or glass of wine is nice.

Ckim --- I had to laugh, because the "slippery slope" is a common term in my family for drinking. Cutting loose every now and then isn't a bad thing. Alcohol is a depressant though and usually just makes me sad -- but relaxed!! Rolling Eyes

Keep hanging in there everyone. There's got to be a light at the end of the tunnel for all of us.

Hugs,
PBJ
_________________
Husband diagnosed with NSCLC Stage IV. (Non-Small Cell Lung Cancer) Fought & lived 2 1/2 years with multiple lines of treatment.

Post describing our battle: http://cancerforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=7026&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Ckim · Experienced user Joined: 15 Aug 2008 Posts: 57

Here is a question for those who lost a spouse to this.

I was over at my parents' house. My father fell twice this morning.

Anyhow, my mother's attitude is very bad. She rolls her eyes, is not cooperative with discussing plans for how to make my dad's life (and hers) easier.

She didn't want the bathroom door widened. Suddenly she is worried about spending money on something like that. To put it into perspective, when they first moved in, they spent $800 to close up a large opening to the dining room because not all the dining room furniture would fit!

Oh, and she was worried about resale--it's just not like her.

Today, I was discussing with her about moving my dad's daytime activity (If you can call it that) downstairs. I feel like he has so many energy points per day and uses up most of them getting upstairs and downstairs.

I suggested putting his TV in the kitchen or the living room.

She is concerned that that turns the "whole house into a hospital."

I kind of lost it at that point. I said things like "What? You're afraid of what the UPS guy is going to think?" Really, they have no guests.

My dad has the power chair and in the living room is a rug that would have to be moved--she doesn't want it moved.

She says that she like having the room set the way it is, etc, etc and that's that. I asked her if she would like it if she were confined to her office room downstairs and was no allowed to go anywhere else in the house.

So, then she starts crying.

I think that she is seeing any accommodation of my dad's needs as a kind surrendering to the progress of the disease--like it marks the steps that lead to his death.

Is that what's going on?

My dad tonight asked me if I would come over in the morning (around 10:30 or so, to help her get him out of bed and every night as well to put him to bed.

I think he asked this because I am his advocate even to his own wife!

I would like to hire some 24 hour home care for about 4-5 days and stay over there and send my mom away on a little trip.

I think she needs to get out of there for a brief period of time to give herself a break.

My sister is coming out in a few weeks, and I am planning to take a break then.

My dad is still fighting. I want to honor his fighting by giving him every opportunity to make even the smallest decisions about his life. Even coming down the stair chair, I make sure that he is ready for me to turn the chair 90 degrees so he can move off it, instead of treating him like an inanimate object.

When moving him around, I try to be very specific saying things like: Take your right foot and move it one step closer to me. OK, one more step, and one more step. Are you ready to sit down now? OK."

He seems less cranky when I do that. And I know from 30 years that being helpless in this way is among his greatest nightmares. He has a living will to make sure that if all is hopeless he is not to be kept alive by artificial means.

The only other thing I can think of is to get my mom into some kind of counseling. She is highly OCD at times. (Why the sink cannot have any water spot, I don't know...). We laugh about it sometimes, but it is getting in the way of my dad's care bc of her attitude.

And watching her take care of him is giving me some scary insight into how she must have cared for me as a baby which, really, explains a lot of the problems I have had as a person throughout my life. (But, that is neither here nor there, just a little enlightening and frightening!)

So, any advice, comments are welcome.

I also find it funny that out of 162 views only 7 people have answered the poll and it has been unanimous--no on drinks to cope!

I think some of those 160 people just don't want to admit it!

[i]And btw, I drank most of the bottle over the course of the whole night--about 5-6 hours. And while I regretted it the next day Embarassed

what I wrote was insightful to me in dealing with this.

I can't hide the scary stuff from myself or stuff it away because it will come out at unexpected times.

So, today, instead of drinking, I am consoling myself with some chocolate covered frozen bananas--no hangover worries there.[/i]

bnot · Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:31 pm Post subject: Re: Non-PC Question

New here. Think Mom gets her diagnosis next week.

I voted no.

Only because I have bipolar disorder also, and with the meds I'm on, I can't drink.

If it weren't for that, I probably would drink. Its been a rough week waiting for tests, and scheduling new ones.

EFP · Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:55 pm Post subject: Re: Non-PC Question

Hi CKim.

Ok, you now have a yes vote -- but I cheated. I do drink but I'm the patient, not the caregiver! Is that ok? Smile

But it's my caregiver that's been keeping me stocked with my favorite drink -- Bailey's Irish Cream. I love it but I'm too cheap to buy it (since it doesn't last too long around here and it's pretty pricey) but, since my dx, my dear hubby has been buying it regularly for me.

Hang in there. And let's drink together tonight! Smile

EFP
_________________
64-yr-old woman dx 12/07 Stage 4 NSCLC (adenocarcinoma), with mets to lymph nodes and bones (pelvis, L3). Only symptoms are blood clots, for which am taking Lovenox, and some pain from the bone mets, for which I had radiation to the pelvis and spine. Have opted to do no chemo or chest radiation.

Ckim · Experienced user Joined: 15 Aug 2008 Posts: 57

[quote="EFP"]Hi CKim.

Ok, you now have a yes vote -- but I cheated. I do drink but I'm the patient, not the caregiver! Is that ok? Smile

But it's my caregiver that's been keeping me stocked with my favorite drink -- Bailey's Irish Cream. I love it but I'm too cheap to buy it (since it doesn't last too long around here and it's pretty pricey) but, since my dx, my dear hubby has been buying it regularly for me.

Hang in there. And let's drink together tonight! Smile

EFP[/quote]

Ah Bailey's, smooth cream and beige!

I will drink to you! It takes a great deal of courage to opt not to get on the roller coaster.

My dad still drinks--scotch--he mixes it now with his Boost (and I am not allowed to tell his doctor Shocked

). But, actually I think it helps him with the pain. My mom started cutting it with water and his pain level and dependance on pain meds increased.

Of course, since he had throat cancer, he can't drink much of anything (can't eat anything either).

I hope people realize that while I am not advocating drinking as a coping choice and I know that you are not advocating the non-treatment path, that it is a reality for some folks.

And it's not just a question for caregivers. That is the position I am in, but I can see it from my dad's point of view. He has never tried to sanitize his feelings about having cancer.

He hates it! He was enjoying his life limited as it was by previous cancers, and as he put it--he just wants to stay awhile longer.

I hope he can.

And I hope that you can as well. Your perspective is particularly valuable to me. Thank-you!

simplyklb · Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:35 am Post subject: Re: Non-PC Question

I don't have time to drink at this point... I have two parents with lung cancer. Besides I have to be real careful when I drink because alcoholism runs strong on my dad's side of the family. I've had a couple of drinks since their diagnoses in May but no drinking to the point of oblivion. I have decided since then that I need to be of sound mind. Besides I have to deal with an extended family member who is both an alcoholic and a drug addict.

Kristi
_________________
Dad - Andy, 70, diagnosed with SCLC in May 2008
2/20/38 - 10/15/08 Fly high, Dad!
Mom - Jackie, 67, diagnosed with NSCLC in May 2008

EFP · Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 8:22 am Post subject: Re: Non-PC Question

Kristi, just for the record: I do not drink to the 'point of oblivion'. And I remain 'of sound mind'. I was just talking about a drink to relax me (and because it's so delicious).

CKim, a thought occurred to me: Any chance you could induce your mother to join you for a drink some night? It might be just what she needs!

Be well.

EFP
_________________
64-yr-old woman dx 12/07 Stage 4 NSCLC (adenocarcinoma), with mets to lymph nodes and bones (pelvis, L3). Only symptoms are blood clots, for which am taking Lovenox, and some pain from the bone mets, for which I had radiation to the pelvis and spine. Have opted to do no chemo or chest radiation.

pbj11 · Site Admin Joined: 12 May 2007 Posts: 1406

Grand idea EFP! I do remember my Dad sipping on wine while my Mom was dying, but never to the point of drunk, and she had 'round the clock nurses back then in the days before Hospice.

I guess I felt like I needed to be on my toes all the time while my hubby was sick and we have a son with addiction issues, so we kept no alcohol in the house back then.

Since he's passed, not so much... LOL I LOVE Bailey's too and my friends keep their bar well stocked with a bottle for me when I visit. They tell me their bottle o' Bailey's misses me to get me to leave the house. Wink

One of my best friends died from SCLC a year before my husband and I watched our friend, her hubby, start the drinking. I kept telling him to be careful, but I didn't understand how losing your spouse affects you until I landed in his shoes. Now, I "get it."

I think you nailed it with your own conclusion for why your Mom is acting this way. I urge EXTREME caution in how you handle her though. Do NOT push her. If one of my kids had pushed me, they'd have landed in a dumpster. I was very tightly wired during my hubs illness and, being a control freak, kept control over what I could. He was fiercely independent and only used a wheel-chair to go to the doctor. Otherwise, the time it took him to climb the stairs each night became longer and longer. I would have torn down the whole house if he needed it, because I took the opposite approach in my manic way -- nothing was too good or too expensive for him. I frequently told him that I wished it was ME that this was happening to -- and I would have taken it from him if I could. Not being a drama queen, just felt so upset that this was happening to such a dear soul. I should add that my kids also thought, after his passing, that my anal behavior (spots in the sink type of thing) was bizarre. I think this ultimate stress enhances any character eccentricities and I've got plenty of those! Laughing

Hope this helped shed some light on your Mom. Bless her heart. It's not something I'd wish on anyone. You are doing a spectacular job of keeping your Dad as your Dad and not treating him like some sick person or a piece of meat. (You know what I mean.) You're walking a fine line and that is very difficult.

I should add that, every now and then, my husband did enjoy some nice wine, even though I KNEW he shouldn't have been drinking at that point in his chemo cycle. His daughter figured he should live it up while he could and she was right!

Big hugs Ckim,
PBJ
_________________
Husband diagnosed with NSCLC Stage IV. (Non-Small Cell Lung Cancer) Fought & lived 2 1/2 years with multiple lines of treatment.

Post describing our battle: http://cancerforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=7026&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

dano · Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:29 am Post subject: Re: Non-PC Question

Hi Ckim;
Again here I am a patient and not the caregiver, shoots right now I don't need much of a caregiver at this stage, But my Wife and I will have an occasional drink. Not so much at the house unless I buy beer for kicks. I used up the last of my Margarita mix, I love a good Margarita. I just got back from a trip with my Dad who is 88, was visiting his family. We ate out a lot and had a lot of tastings you could say and every evening I'd join him with his seven and seven before bed. I don't care much for it but what the heck, he mixed the drinks, it was an honor to share it with him. I really enjoyed the beer at the ball game with the peanuts and the White hots. But I don't know how long I'll live for but on the way out I'm going to enjoy life the best I can. This will be a long road for my wife, and she will have separation issues as I go, she is not much of a drinker so I doubt she would turn to that. Loved ones dieing causes stress, we each handle it our own way. Getting Cancer is initially stressful but once you have it you start a battle that can be seldom won.
I think you bring up good points and you are enjoying the chance to air yourself out. I love the way you respect your dad and your poor mom is a bit broken right now and may not find her way back to reality again. Leaving you to try to put things together as right as you can make them. You can't make everybody happy no matter what you do and least of all yourself. So occasionally, Cheers, have a drink and relax, you have it coming.
God Bless
Dan
_________________
54 year old male in Hawaii
Diagnosed Nov. 9,2007 with NSCLC IV
with Mets to the lymphs and brain
Had full brain radiation treatment in Jan 08
Currently on chemo treatments every 3 weeks
with Alimta
and taking Lovenox for blood clots
Now back to work full time
http://cancerforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=9993

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